I was going to write about all sorts of frugelly things and tell you about my week, but have postponed that until tomorrow(?) as I feel inspired the talk about something different.
Like many of you British smallholders I follow several American/Canadian Homesteaders. I love to read about the climate extremes, about living off-grid, the crops they grow and many other subjects.
A few months ago I joined the facebook page Farm-chat Girls ( yes I KNOW I'm not a girl, but I used to be and the term "Girl" tends to be used pretty loosely on this page). Anyway, back to my point. I usually find much to relate to and agree with, but last week there was a post by a homesteader, who asked if others thought she was paranoid and overly protective because she used a gun and had fences around her property to keep people out. She had many replies from women who agreed wholeheartedly, who don't want anyone on their property at all, Don't trust the incomers from the towns, which are getting closer to them , Nor being happy about being on their own in the remote places that they have chosen to live in because they are remote and they don't like people. They tell of putting up signs saying trespassers will be shot, fix it so that the meters are read from outside the property or electronically so that even the meter man needn't access the property.. And so on.... I stuck my head above the parapet and said that my doors and gates were open and the gates that were closed were to keep sheep in and dogs from going on the road. (and that our gas man was a good bloke and actually came into the house to read the meter) A couple replied to my comment, one of which told me that she had had a large amount of expensive fencing stolen and so didn't feel she could trust anybody and needed to defend her property..
I didn't keep the conversation going as I didn't want to set off a major argument, but I wanted to say that shooting someone because they stole from you or trespassed on your property, seems a little extreme. ( not to mention that you would be locked up in this country if you did!)
Not that they want me to, but I felt rather sorry for these women, who seem to live in fear, distrust and feel they don't need their fellow man. These women are all Practicing Christians. You might ask where that comes in the equation and normally for me it wouldn't, but their references to the bible, prayer, thanksgiving etc. positively litter most of the posts. Killing people is not something the God I was taught about would have been happy with. I need to honest here and say that I am no longer a Christian, nor a believer in God-who-made-all, but do accept that others do and respect this.
What do you think ? Am I naive ? Insensitive? Plain wrong?
I'd love to hear, while almost fearful of your answers.
Hope there are not too many typos, but am in haste and about to go out to listen to what the leader of the Green Party has to say. She is speaking in Belper tonight.
It seems a bit over the top to me .. and very sad. And the worrying thing is where it would stop... it wasnt that long ago a person could be hung for being the wrong colour in the South of the USA .. never mind crossing someones boundry .. and no doubt they too were all Godfearin' Christians.ReplyDelete
I think we wre so lucky to live where we do and must fight hard to maintain the community we have.
I suppose "sad" is how I felt when I read the comments.Delete
And yes, I have always felt that being born here is like winning the lottery,.
America's Gun Laws are very different from ours and many people over there fight hard to keep those laws. I have been many times to the US and had wonderful holidays, always made very welcome - more so out in the country where, being farmers ourselves and thus interested in farming communities, we have never been made to feel in any way intrusive. It is hard for us to understand I think.ReplyDelete
Right out in the country you might come across a huge Gun Shop where anyone can buy a gun. Of course, they pay the price for this with so many gun crimes - all very hard for us to understand.
I AM trying to understand Weaver, but I really struggle. I understand that City life can be really threatening, choose whatever country you live in.. but country life!?Delete
I live in the US and the gun issue is a big political thing here. We have the National Rifle Association who, for some reason, hold a lot of power over our politicians. Even after the horrific school shootings, among many others, our politicians seem afraid to even put background checks into place for people buying guns. I believe in our "right to bear arms" but there are a growing number here who believe that right includes "protecting themselves from the government". And, yes, most of these gun nuts are "Christians". Not any definition of Christian that I have ever known. I could go on but am sure I would begin boring you all. Just know we are not all like those women on that forum. They sound like they are part of one of the doomsday survivor groups.ReplyDelete
Yes, I know not everyone is the same. Nobody gets stereotyped more than the British (another generalisation !)Delete
I wish I was still a believer, so that I could have a discussion that they would consider balanced with people who think this way.
You are definitely not boring me. Thank you so much for commenting
Beware. Everything that happens in the States happens here 10-20 years later!ReplyDelete
I just Cannot read the happy clappy Christian US blogs, Extreme Religion causes too many problems in the world. Religion should be a private thing between a person and God.- whichever.
I wish I believed as strongly as some do. Though you would probably not read my posts if I was forever telling you !Delete
We both have the devil (Whoops!) in us today... Saw your post.
I'm a Christian, a woman, a responsible gun owner and of course an American.ReplyDelete
First off ... I would not shoot you if you trespassed on my property. I would however hold a gun on you if you were stealing from me. I said, Hold a gun on you. By the time I retrieved my gun and called 911 then i'll hold you until the police come and that is if I caught you. I would shoot you if you came through my door unannounced and uninvited or with evil intent. I have no desire to kill another human being. If you need food or help just ask and i'll be more than happy to help as best I can. But do not break into my home with the intention of stealing or harming me or mine to be able to take what you have not worked for.
My dil just this passed week caught a woman stealing delivered packages right off their front porch. When my dil open the door and told the lady to put the boxes back she cursed her and said, I wasn't taking packages, I was just wanting directions. My dil said here is a direction ...Put the packages back! My dil then states that she had watched her put packages in her car. The lady then runs back to her car and takes off. My dil calls the police and gives them her tag number.
The sad thing about this is that her two small children was sitting in the car and being taught by their mother to steal. And the funny thing is that she I'm sure was really upset when she opened said package and found nothing but useless carpet samples and not some expensive Christmas gifts. Now she is being arrested for theft. Heartbreaking. This time of year is when the neighborhoods are scouted for such packages being left of stoops of homes which is variable feast for thieves.
Nope I won't shoot you for trespassing but I will shoot you to defend myself against harm. And I would hope you would do the same being American or not. I don't think the Lord meant for me to stand there when He said "Turn the other cheek" and allow some drugged filled maniac to kill me for a quarter.
I'm a Christian who believes in looking out for me and mine. I'm not a Clappy US Christian blogger. Nor am I extremely Religious. My being a Christian, a woman, a responsible gun owner and an American is just what I am and I'm not ashamed of that.
Kind of sad to be lumped into a category of crazed gun owners just because there are people out there that are not responsible gun owners. The school shootings are tragic to say the least. Any murder is horrific where by gun, knife or just plain being beaten to death. But own a gun, be a Christian and be an American gets you all kinds of grief. Some my deserve the distain but most do not.
It is difficult not to be lumped together with others, whatever the issue. I know this to my cost.Delete
The difficulty for me would be knowing ALL the story when making a decision. If your DIL had been armed the outcome could have been so different. Would that woman have taken the risk if she had known the contents of the package? Would you have harmed her because she was trying to steal some carpet samples? Was she desperate to feed those children? I don't think I could make such a decision. Please believe I respect your beliefs and deeply miss my lost faith and envy you yours.
Thanks for commenting.
I am an American, not religious, and not a so called homesteader. I live in the east, not far from Philadelphia and do not support gun ownership. To our British friends, please, please remember that this is an immense country, very diverse, and the extremes that you mention are just that, extremes. I shudder every time I read generalization about US citizens.ReplyDelete
Thanks for your thoughtful post,
I really didn't mean to generalise. This was a comment on a particular Post. But I must admit to being disturbed by such negativity and unhappiness.
I live on a smallholding (Homestead) and when it no longer brings me joy and I am fearful of living here it will be time to give up !
For the record. We DO get crime in the UK. we just deal with it differently
Oh girl, what a can of worms you've opened!ReplyDelete
I sincerely hope that this 'trend' is not coming over here in 10-20 years' time!
I would like to know how to use a gun (have fired a pistol on a firing range), just in case I ever needed to. I was brought up fed on mostly rabbit and pigeons and knew these were mostly shot. If I had to, I would learn how to shoot, I'm sixty next week, hope I never have to!
Thought I might, but took the risk anyway!Delete
I have no trouble with a farmer using a gun. I have lost many chickens this year and if I had had a gun and seen a fox I would have shot it!!! ( mind you I probably wouldn't have been a good enough shot to hit it) I would happily shoot the squirrels that take all my walnuts and most of my hazels and I cheer when the cat catches a mole. BUT my fellow man? Don't think so.
No use arguing with the American "right" - think Waco and Ruby Ridge - quite extremeReplyDelete
but none the less very real here ( I was born in the U.k. and have live in the U.s. over for thirty years).
Dont waste your energy is trying to fathom the mentality - not worth it; just be pleased that you live in Derbyshire and not in some of these god-forsaken places in this country ( they have to be SEEN to be believed).
I cannot apply my values and cultural beliefs to anything I see in the States; just have to remind myself some days that this is a foreign country I live in; nothing like the U.k.
I think one f the things I struggled with most (apart from someone thinking taking the life of a human was okay) was that these women didn't want to have other people around them. They were virtually reclusive. Me? my house is never empty. Nothing so sure that my decomposed body wont be found as nobody had missed me! I have company and love enough for me and anybody else who wants to share it.Delete
Take care Lizzie
I don't understand how anyone can call themself a Christian with a gun close to hand - especially to protect their "belongings".ReplyDelete
I live in South Africa, and given that our reputation world-wide is one that is not all that "peaceful", gun owners here that I know, of are few and far between.
Half the problems in the world today are due to armed, so-called religious people
and fakes, who use their religion as a weapon. They disgrace the privilge they
have, and damage the reputation and standing of their scriptures with their behaviour and actions.
As far as that Farm chat Girls facebook page is concerned - do you really have that much in common with them?
I agree that many problems are due to "Religion" nowadays and I suspect it was always thus. I do try to understand, but fail dismally when religion is used as an excuse for violent behaviour.ReplyDelete
My husband visited South Africa a few years ago and has nothing but praise for it. He wants to take me as he was so impressed, but I get homesick going to Cornwall (270 miles away) for a weekend.
Re. the FB page, until this post, I was enjoying the diversity as opposed to the commonality, of their type of homesteading and the tales of the extremes of weather.
I live in the US and absolutely hate guns and the whole gun culture....so many paranoid people around. I have never shot a gun, don't own one and don't want one. So happy when I am in the UK as the news on TV is so much more pleasant..all we hear each morning is how many people got shot in Philadelphia (nearesrReplyDelete
Thanks for commenting lynda. Glad you are happy when you are in England. Do you visit us often ?Delete
I must say that there does seem to be a lot of gun-related accidents and assaults reported on the occasions that I have listened to US News.
Please don't lump Canada in with the U.S. We do have gun laws here, but unfortunately it doesn't stop all the illegal guns from crossing the border from the U.S. As for the extremists living off the grid, I know many and they welcome visitors. Gun owners here fall into three categories - those that hunt for food, those who are clew tots and then the riff raff that ALL countries have including the UK. As for the Christian angle I do not know anyone in Canada who believes in God that would take another's life to protect themselves. I know it happens in the US but not here. I am of the opinion that that way of thinking goes way back to when the country began and in some families has been passed down through the generations. If Canada has a problem, it is for having open arms and not taking enough time to check out people immigrating here I.e. Not checking backgrounds. I am very happy to live in a country that has a very diverse population. To me it shows just how much Canadians care about others from war torn countries. When I mentioned about checking backgrounds, we have families that move here, the kids only know shooting etc. from where they came from and are preyed upon to join gangs. People who are in gangs are of course looked on as the scum of the earth, but if you look at their backgrounds you find parents who do not know how to be parents, parents who are alcoholics and can't look after themselves let alone their kids. These problems are not just in North America they are everywhere in the world. Hope this helps you understand. Of course you also have people with mental illness that latch on to things cause their poor minds can't sort it out.ReplyDelete
By the way my daughter-in-law is a hunter/fisher and I am happy she is teaching my grandkids safe gun and now handling as there is going to come a time when there won't be enough food for the world's population. Also, I do enjoy a good meal of deer hamburger balls. Sorry to go on for so long.Delete
I wasn't necessarily lumping Canada and the US together. The FB page I was discussing, has women from both countries and I didn't study which country the replies came from.Delete
Thank you for your interesting and informative comment.
Incidentally, I too am concerned that a time will come when being able to feed ourselves will be paramount. As a smallholder I have taught my children and grandchildren how to pluck chickens, skin rabbits and forage for food. I'm not an extreme prepper, but AM prepared!
Most Americans, and their politicians, talk about 'god' ad infinitum because it's expected of them, and is almost a sign of respectability. Back in Europe people are regarded as asylum material if they claim to believe in spooks of any sort. The 'praise be to god, and pass the ammunition' attitude baffles me. Thank goodness I live somewhere where crime is almost unknown.ReplyDelete
You certainly live in a beautiful and safe place. Which, I suspect was not accidentalDelete
I can't see me EVER using a gun to defend my property, the consequences are just too much to think about, mentally and the fact they'd lock you up and throw away the key over here. I might have a piece of wood under the bed though just to feel a little safer. Gun licencing over here is quite strict and I don;t think that's a bad thing. there are many people in the UK that I'm glad haven't got a gun!ReplyDelete
We have a footpath running through our smallholding so no chance of keeping people out anyway. Generally the people I meet on this footpath are lovely and I quite often have a chat with someone.
I do hunt and shoot though and that's what I see my shotguns as, a tool to keep the pest population down on my smallholding and to hopefully fill the freezer a little bit. Gun safety is also a major thing and I think education is key, generally if someone owns a gun in the UK they have been taught how to use it safely, that makes me feel a lot more confidant about it. Of course you will still get nutters, either with or without a license.
Ask them about their second amendment and see what they say. They can buy ammunition in the supermarket. It is a can of worms you've opened!
We have a footpath pretty close to us and walkers pass our house all the time. I don't expect to feel threatened by them. I suppose I might feel more anxious if I lived in a city, and the women on the FB group seemed to feel more threatened by city people coming to the country. What I don't want to feel is fear and dislike of the company of others on a daily basis.Delete
"Frugal in Derbyshire" has been included in our Sites To See #413. Be assured that we hope this helps to point many new visitors in your direction.ReplyDelete
Revolvers are not as training intensive as a semi-automatic pistol, but they are generally more reliable and there is more choice of ammunition available for them.ReplyDelete
Nice post, Gill and excellent, varied comments. The attitudes of the people described go hand-in-hand with tea-party principles, hatred of the government and taxes, a certain type of home-schooling, anti-abortion but pro-death penalty (go figure) very literal interpretation of the bible and dont even get them started on sex and NUDITY.ReplyDelete
It is however, illegal to just gun people down here even if they are on your property; a lot of their statements are just bluster from uneducated minds. We have come a little way from the hilly-billy wild west............
An old college friend lives in Alabama and her son is FB "friend" of mine. I have not "un-friended" him despite his extreme views, as I feel it keeps me in touch with how a significant number of Americans feel. His hatred of Obama is VERY Un-Christian and quite frightening.Delete
Good to see the varied comments isn't it?
I was born in the UK and came to Canada with my family as a teenager. It was quite shocking to see policemen with guns-my dad was a policeman for 20 years before we came to Canada and he felt that his truncheon was all he needed to deal with criminals etc. In my 20's I lived in Belfast, N. Ireland for 2 years. This was during the time of 'the troubles'. I became a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time when I was alone one noon hour in my office building. This was in the days when nobody walked into a building, you had to ring the bell and someone (me) would let you in. This happened and I was pushed inside by 2 teenage girls with large hand guns and 2 men with machine guns. The 2 girls were shaking so bad I thought they would shoot me whether they wanted to or not. The men ran up the stairs ,shot there machine guns around and then they all left. Over 40 years later I can still remember the girls' faces. Much longer story but suffice to say I survived and came back to Canada not long after. I have visited different States in the USA where men and women wear their guns in holsters in the grocery stores and there are gun wracks with rifles in their trucks!ReplyDelete
I'm glad to say I live i the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and feel relatively safe here. We have very little gun violence but it is increasing with the younger gang members and criminals.
Must have been quite difficult for your dad. And as for the Belfast incident, that is quite shocking! it is testament to YOUR goodness that you haven't used the incident as an excuse to arm yourself as other have.Delete
May you continue to feel safe in your home.
Thanks for commenting.
Wow Mrs H! teach me not to read your blog in a while! Talk about opening a HUGE can of worms!! Incidentally so proud of you for saying what you think and feel. YD xxxReplyDelete
Sometimes you have to take a risk. In this case of loosing followers which I would regret, or of trolls which I might quite enjoy. Iv'e been insulted most of my working life and by experts!.Delete
As for saying what we think and feel... it's a family trait. xx
I cant even begin to describe the trauma that many whites feel about having a black president - their bigoted world has been turned upside-down. And then we was elected for a second term !!!ReplyDelete
I know he hasn't quite come up to the mark ( you should listen to our "leader" though!) but I can't help liking the guy. All the Brits that I know were really pleased when he got in, but he seems to have been scuppered by the opposition at every turn. Shame. xDelete
Excellent post! I hate guns and the whole gun culture. I get sick of the whole 'guns don't kill people, people kill people, cars kill people are you going to ban them bull**** Guns were designed to kill people, cars were designed for transport. The number of people who are shot in American is horrifying. I find it very sad that they think everyone is out to kill them. I'm not a Christian, but from what I was taught at school, being willing to kill someone over possessions, and not wanting to associate with your fellow man is not living a Christian life.ReplyDelete
I agree with you Chickpea. It makes me sad that there are people who no longer trust their fellow man. I'm not naive enough to believe that everybody is trustworthy, but do believe that MOST people are.Delete
After living in a southern English city where one day I was trapped in the house all day as a bomb had been left in a local shop, it was stolen from the IRA. off the train by a drug addict.a nieghbour was shot in a nightclub he worked in. also several killings gun and knife. Once I know of a child [14/15] sending a photo on his phone of himself with a gun to scare a chap who's bike he had stolen. This all happened in a small council estate. moving in to derbyshire is totally different feel. Relaxed and safe. I know there are druggies only 3 miles away but don't feel they would walk to rob me.My daughter married a Texan who carries a gun for his work and got my daughter to get a licence to carry in case she drove his car with the gun in it. and once we were over they took us to a gun/hunting shop in Dallas, my daughter made me stay outside so as not to upset me [veggie ].Don't think I would shot someone though I have hurt a thief and know I would hurt any others I came across.ReplyDelete
Like you, while something of a pacifist I would defend myself if attacked, but do not spend my life EXPECTING it to happen, nor arm myself in case!Delete
You have put it in a nutshell, Gill !!ReplyDelete